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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
464
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Posted - 2013.01.13 10:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The 'reset' is too extreme, would reverse the the problem and give defensive work the benefit of unlimited alts in mediocre frigs .. just run 2-3 around to insure that the lone attacking alt runs -> reset plex -> park one.
The autorun timer, as your original idea all those years ago called for (#2), is much more sensible and in tune with what is actually happening ..
To use the wall analogy: Guard captain (defensive plexer) patrols the wall, when an enemy tries to scale it (attacking plexer) he coordinates the defence and throws him off but leaves securing the section to the grunts/guards (NPC's) stationed there.
If nothing else changes (rats are too damn weak!), then I'd have the defensive timer run at twice the speed when the 'guard captain' is around and regular speed when he leaves. Reduce the defensive LP if wanted.
We want to create an environment where attacking means committing capable/adequate forces or see an offensive grind to a halt .. we want the plex fights. Benefits for capturing a system (possible 6 points of WZC) more than makes up for that requirement and that is before the e-peen value of actually having done something other than let slip the alts-of-war.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:....
Do you honestly consider the solution to the might-aswell-be-gunless alts to be for the opponent to spam similar alts to counter them? Surely you can see that when "more of X to counter X" makes for very tedious gameplay. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
464
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 11:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Those grunts should be the new players....
In the real world with a command structure in place, sure. But in a game where everyone pays to play the idea of that kind of slavery is rather draconian. Besides, CCP has said repeatedly that they will no dictate how/what/why people play the game and I'd say (have for a long time) that the whole defensive plexing part of FW is a forced mode of play .. especially now that we have docking denial and massive benefits for offensive plexing.
Were timer to be accelerated with a defender present then the idea of leaving a man (read: nublet) behind to secure it would not be a big deal, hell I'd probably volunteer if no one else stepped forward .. did that plenty when the only LP around was from missions requiring a bazillion jumps through hostile space.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:When I was living in Ostingele...
Why would I aspire to be top-killer when those are more often than not blob-monkeys, campers or worse? I generally avoid both friendly and hostile booster gangs because the mechanic is broken, I avoid blobs because fights are generally rather boring (ganks) and I don't camp anything other than plex buttons ..
I am of the conviction that if any change is to be had, someone has to be the first to show that the world still turns after said change .. or to put it another way, I'd rather spend my time debating changes than to exploit the loopholes that are the cause of the debate.
And yes I could make an alt, of course I could, but I won't .. see above. Farmers must go.
Morality. Don't care if I am alone  |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
466
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eve is alive because it never catered to the lowest denominator. Popularity is only a metric one should be concerned about in the short term when building interest or if one lives on FaecesbookGäó .. lessening FW's attraction for farmers, who already outnumber all other groups by a factor of ;insert double digit;, by increasing risk will be a good thing.
Once risk/reward is sorted and advantage shifted to be in favour of pew'ers, you can tweak numbers upwards to bring in more people .. that intake will then have the "proper' ratio.
Pointless argument though as FW has always had much more interest than it should have had, reason probably being that pew elsewhere had become gangrenous, but what started out with a majority population of pew'ers has been reversed to the detriment of Eve as a whole (if everyone can afford anything ...). |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
476
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 20:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:...The problem with the straight up countback that hans proposed is that if you leave your plex to fight some enemy plexing right next to you, your own timer starts to run down! The penalty should only apply if an enemy (or neutral?) lands on grid or on grid with your accel gate before you warp off.
So an ADHD afflicted PvP'er-Plexer who chooses option one which is to get some pew, loot, bragging rights and tears should not in your opinion have to make any sacrifice for all that? Kind of greedy don't you think?
Would of course also work if auto-run only engages after a button has been contested, but whatever floats your boat 
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
476
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 21:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
The straight up notification system is a dead duck for the reason Merdaneth explained, a better option would be a an additional column (or a hover text) in the militia interface giving you the net change VP/plexes the last 15/30 or 30/60 minutes .. if second is close to 2x the first then system is being actively plexed.
Still does not address the issue of plexes being run by toothless frigs though as they will and do just what Merdaneth said, run ad nauseum. Very few (if any) people have the patience to try to kill something that requires extraordinary measure to even catch for next to nothing.
We could demand that CCP spend all the alt cash they make on FW to have a permanent team assigned to improving FW .. in that case I'd be more than happy to look the other way while farm alts dictate what I can do (ISK) and where I can go (docking) |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
480
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 09:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:.... Cynthia deploys a Daredevil to nuke even medium plex rats within seconds, then installs Alfred olacar in the cloaky Bantam. No further rats spawn, meaning you don't even need a gun. Welcome back to gunless cloaking plexing alts...
Predicted this behaviour prior to changes going though, glad to see it confirmed. Quite simply the most efficient way to do it with the current rules .. the plexing speed on Gall/Cald front points towards heavy use of same method as does the speed on Min/Amarr so not 'kosher' to name names I think
As for Dust; The whole idea is for CCP to make cash and the tie-in is rather ingenious, having Dust act as a modifier on the goings on in Eve .. both sides have equal opportunity to affect said modifier as it can swing both ways and the modifiers have been in place for a long time (think it was with October patch).
Question is if it wouldn't have been more 'fair' to reset all districts to have no ownership (ie. 0% modifier) when the tie-in was activated.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
484
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 09:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:u haven't read my post ... this will not even reduce farming by a bit .... if you chase away farmer from plex he usually does not return. He just goes to other distant system....
It will reduce it, simply because the profits from it will plummet.
Farming works because defender (PvP'er) does not want to waste time babysitting timers, especially with extra time on them so the farmer can have several 'active' plexes to work with and just warp around with the only time lost being the time it takes to warp+accel. gate.
Resetting timers would make offensive plexing something to do in blobs so make sure you don't suddenly 'lose' 15 minutes and is to me an exceedingly poor idea.
Auto-run timers on the other hand lets the PvP'er penalise the farmer for running without having to stop, if he runs the time it takes him to get back is effectively lost to him.
End result will be a shift towards missions again, but they 'only' affect the markets (which have been crashed for 1+ year so 'meh') and not the all important docking and/or WZC .. while not all that needs to be done to bring balance to the risk/reward of FW it would be a solid step in the right direction.
PS: And yes, farmer can just pull stakes and go far, far away .. but as control stabilizes, people spread out and that ninja wannabe gets a brand new group of followers --> missions. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
485
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 15:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
ground ctrl wrote:...Its really that simple. If a militia is immediately notified and still can't cover the distance in 3 minutes to chase out rabbits (and thereby make farming impossible) then they likely need to spread out their blob.
Cearain tried convincing me with the exact same thing and it is still erroneous to say the least. Chasing rabbits is all well and good, but without a shotgun and/or snares the chase is all you will ever get until you collapse from exhaustion and starvation.
A notification system does not solve the problem, all it does is give the hunter a mountainbike so he doesn't deflate as quickly and saves him some time .. the farming issue itself will remain. It is needed for those reason, but don't think it will be the magic bullet.
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:...In all 4 militias: less than 150 systems, more than 150 pilots 90% of the time. One pilot can defend multiple systems, theoretically there should be almost no farming. Do you need to fix mechanics or fix people?
And when 125 of the 150 people are in actuality farming the snot out of it you are left with a couple of dusin people to Benny Hill them around .. besides, it is easier to sort mechanics than people .. we've been trying the latter for millennia and we are all still twats when all is said and done.
Chasing farmers is loosing proposition as long as they are not penalized for running .. Auto-run timers and appropriate NPC's .. push the bastards into the missions where they can not rock the boat. |
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